Home News Court convicts HM, Speaker of corruption; slaps them jail terms

Court convicts HM, Speaker of corruption; slaps them jail terms

31

The Mongar district court on Friday convicted Home Minister Minjur Dorji and National Assembly Speaker Jigme Tshultim of corruption and misconduct and respectively sentenced to one year, and two and a half years in prison in the Gyalpoizhing land allotment  case.

Minjur Dorji’s case was taken as bailable in lie of cash money calculated on the basis of minimum daily wage as Nu 100 a day.

NA Speaker Jigme Tshultim and HM Dorji

The Court’s verdict ruled that Speaker Tshultim was found guilty of illegally allotting plots to 23 individuals including his maid during his tenure as the Mongar Dzongda and chairman of the plot allotment committee in 2001-02.

Justice Gembo Dorji handed down the verdict to Tshueltim liable for two and half year prison term or pay Nu.90,000 in lieu of the term.

While, the court also sentenced the Home Minister Dorji to a year in prison for official misconduct in allotting plots to two dratshangs and  the wife of a Kurichhu project engineer during his tenure as the Mongar Dzongda in 2005-06.

According to the verdict, the convicted needed to return the allotted plots to the government.

The court  ruled that both the Speaker and the Home Minister  failed to abide by His Majesty’s kasho (written order)  issued in 1987 and the allotment criteria set by the works and human settlement ministry, stated the Kuensel.

The other plot committee members were also given a one year sentence for not carrying out their duties diligently. They can pay thrimthue in lieu of the prison term, the report added.

The committee members slapped with one year imprisonment:

1. Tappo ( Dzongrab)

2. Tashi Norbu Sherpa (AE) MMC

3. Karchung (Assistant Dzongkhag Agricultural)

4. Namgangla (BCCI)

5. Khina Maya (District Health Officer)

6. Sangay Dorji (ADEO)

7. CL Das (DE)

8. Pelden Norgay (DE)

9. Rinchen Wangdi (DZFO)

10. Dorji Wangchuk (DLO)

11. Lok Nath Dahal – (FO)

12. Kinley Dorji (LRO)

13. Tandin Dorji (DAO)

14. Dechen Singye (Secretary)

 

31 COMMENTS

  1. I am very impressed with a fast news posting. This is quite fascinating news. This becomes attention-grabbing report because of the characters in the play. What intrigues me most is that the first democratic ministers are going to jail for corruption. These corrupt rulers ruled the Tsawa-Sum for five years. The other thing that mesmerizes me is that under the ‘wise leadership’ of the Lyonchhen that they held two of the most vital portfolios for half a decade. Really?? How could this home minister really preach driglham chhoesum/Tsawa-sum across the country, when he has deceived his own King (it was the King’s Kasho) and the very people he served. Imagine the state of affairs! My GOODNESS!
    I hope the Supreme Court does not undermine the Judgement of the Mongar court. If that happens then it might be another corruption, wouldn’t it be?
    Neten Zangmo and team well done!
    Mongar Judge and team well done!
    Here is my problem. One thing my brain can’t understand is why if someone carries ten packs of smokes gets so many years of jail time and here the national level criminals get away with a couple of years. This for me beats the logic.

  2. In my observation lots of changes have come to Bhutan, after our forceful departure. Though, the punishment is not appropriate to the gravity of the crime. However, the precedence is established.
    The people inside Bhutan are totally upset about the leniency shown while handing down the verdicts to the officials. Like everyone else, I also feel that the option of paying Nu.100 a day is so little in today’s context to the gravity of the crime they committed.

  3. My GOODNESS!!! How did I miss the THRIMTHUE? These ministers are getting away with DOMA-PANI allowance for such a crime. I agree with most of the things said by the above commentators except one – PRECEDENCE. (ARE you talking about PRECEDENT?) It is a BAD Precedent. They do such a crime and get away with few silver coins. Lyonpo Sonam Tobgay and team, who made these laws? Fix them please otherwise the verdicts like these will be a bunch of jokes. Clearly the commentators on Kuensel have demonstrated vigorously their frustration with verdict of THRIMTHUE.

    GNH is on FIRE! Who is going to extinguish this fire? Help needed!!!
    I still think ACC gets A+ and the Drangpon Gembo Dorji gets A+, for now, if he has read the law book correctly. Kinley Dorji, Sec, will have to buy a lot of news print paper to print peoples voices. K.D, let it come out, let them speak, they are the real jury. 90% will be right, my guesstimation!

  4. It is totally bullshit. People who fight for democracy and freedom were sentenced for life time. Still we have some freedom fighter in Bhutan prison.

    Sonam, who took 10 packs of Cigarette was sentenced for 10 years jail time. Where as, these kind of bulldogs(real criminal of our nation) who did a national level crime are given such a silly sentences. What the hell is wrong here ? Come on people!

  5. Dear so called Tshering Norbu chhetri,
    I support you regarding light punishment in gyalpozing land case culprits, but I am against comparing Nepali migrant people in southern Bhutan fighting for democracy and freedom inside Bhutan.
    Firstly, the foreigners has no right to claim democracy and freedom in other countries any where in the world.
    Secondly,No Government and genuine people in the world accept such activities inside their mother land.
    Finally,killing of innocent people ,destroying of public services like schools/bridges/hospital in the name of democracy and freedom has no place in this modern world.

  6. My Dear Ram Bahadur Lamchaney Gurung,

    Tshering Norbu can fire back at you for other things but I cannot sit quiet when you bring me into picture.
    What do you know of Bhutan History or World History? If you knew anything about them then you would be more sensitive or more human while making comments. By the way what is your religion? By the way who built the famous Dzongs in Bhutan? Who built your first major road in Bhutan? Who were your first gurus who brought education to Bhutan? Who is paying for most of the development activities in Bhutan? I can drown you with hundreds of such questions. You and your cohorts will have to research for years to answer them like true Buddhist and a man of good conscience and with honesty; otherwise it really does not matter.
    Many of you say Bhutan was always a peaceful country until Southern Bhutanese created the problem. Is it true? Remember, Druk Desis fought each other many times, war with India few times, First Druk Gyalpo was in Paro jail before he became king. Tibetan problem, Yanki problem, Prime Minister assassination problem, Northern Bhutanese people running away to Nepal with Southern Bhutan revenue problem, Chabda shooting on Thimphu ground problem, Bodo problem and so on are not signs of peacefulness. Things like these will regularly happen in any poor or developing countries. Even the developed countries are not always away from these problems. The difference is they talk and solve their problems usually.
    Let me answer some of the questions for you. If you are Budhhist then you worship a Nepali anyway. Buddha was a Nepali. Guru Rimpoche was a foreigner who brought religion to Bhutan. I hope you know where he came from. The Dzongs of Bhutan were built by a foreigner – a runaway monk from Tibet. He was actually a refugee. By definition he was a foreigner. Even the Bhutanese architecture is imported from Nepal and Tibet. The modern education gurus of early 60s were also foreigners. The modern doctors, foresters, engineers and so on were foreigners. My dad paid continuously over seven months of free labour constructing the first National Highway, like everybody in Bhutan. I used that road quite a bit but not my dad. I left a lot of my property for Bhutan to enjoy and moved out of the country for the reasons you and I both know. I still pay to Bhutan with my taxes. So don’t talk so cheaply of foreigners.
    What some of the leaders and some young people did in the initial stages of the problem was terribly wrong. There always will be problems like that in any country. It is the duty and responsibility of the leader and the Government to solve the problem and not to let the army loose to gratify their war hunger.
    Let us not be naïve about the southern problem. By Bhutanese definition or world definition, we all know more than 90% of people if not 100% who were forced out of Bhutan were true Bhutanese. Few of them did make some serious mistakes but the civil Adm. and Army were no less a terror. Fourth Druk Gyalpo, all current senior ministers and other officials so very well knew most citizens were innocent and loyal Bhutanese. Sure Southern Bhutanese came to Bhutan much later than North Western or Assamese North Eastern Bhutanese came to Bhutan. Why is it OK to come at certain time and not OK to come another time? We human beings are few thousand years old as compared to the other beings and we have always moved around by force or invitation or casual settling.
    Tell me why do you have to say this is mine and that is yours always? That Bhutan was equally mine and yours. Where ever we go we have to occupy a piece of land to live or to be buried in if you are to be under the soil.
    So tell me WHY THIS IS ONLY MINE AND NOT YOURS? I am so disappointed with Lyonchhen JTY, once known to be honest and intelligent, now to go round the world and say the Bhutanese exodus in 1990 was a sea of foreigners. How can such an intelligent and just man like Lyonchhen sleep at night with such a heavy burden?

    Comments can be made from anywhere. I f I don’t like the President of XYZ for violating human rights, I can make comments.
    With the issue of Gyalpoizing Land, you have been ruled by two criminals for five or more years. Compare many other cases such as jail time for 15 year olds, or the cigarette cases. You guys don’t sleep quietly if you want to be a country of GNH. It is on Fire now! It hurts me too!!!!!!!

  7. @ Lamcheney gurungji,
    Don’t be obsessed with the hollow patriotic feeling, you might be washed away with the same cruel tides of over patriotic feelings that I possessed once.
    Dude don’t try to be over smart and try to have everything for yourself . Don’t talk like you owned Bhutan more than any body else. By the way who told you about the nepali migrants, if you are real gurung , where is your origin?
    All the ethnic groups in Bhutan are immigrants either from Tibet, Nepal or present day Myanmar. Don’t ever try to least tell the forcefully evicted people that they are foreigners. We have all the proofs to prove that we are genuine Bhutanese. But it was people like your type forced and coerced to leave the land and properties generated by my sheer hard work.
    Although, I am happy with what I have after the resettlement, and fortunate that I am safe and sound even after the witch hunt spree rolled by the regime in 1990s.
    YOU KNOW THE corruptions is most rampant amongst the top brass. If u try 4th king, you will find him the most corrupt person in Bhutan. It was he who engineered the 90s’ crisis with other bunch of people like Dago Tshering, Dawa Tshering and Jigme Y. Thinle amongst others.
    To tell this long story short the corruptions brought all the disasters in Bhutan despite the sincere efforts of the southern Bhutanese.

  8. Hi achamva,
    Sorry I could not understand the true meaning of achamva but I take it as Achamva/surprise after going through your comments about Bhutan history,Bhutan’s rulers,leaders and of course southern violent demonstration by Nepali migrants supported by few Nepali people from across the border.
    So, If you are a genuine Bhutanese please answer the following questions :-
    1.Do you wanna to see our motherland like Sikkim ?Do
    you like to sale our mother land to India like Sikkim ?
    2.Do you like to see our innocent and poor people suffer-
    like in Nepal for the past 15-20 years in the name of
    Democracy and freedom led by cunning leaders for
    vested interest.
    3.It needs to be mentioned that, 90% of the people who left
    Bhutan were innocent, but…forced to leave Bhutan by
    group of Nepali criminals .Those who refused to join
    their group were brutally killed/ kidnapped /tortured and
    their properties robbed and destroyed.
    4.The innocent villagers were given false promise of
    coming back to Bhutan with more freedom and rights
    and creation of greater Nepal bringing together state
    of sikkim,Darjelling,Kalimpong,part of Bengal/assam
    Doors and southern Bhutan.
    5.Our National Dress and National were brunt down during violent demonastration in 1990. The basic facilities likeschool/hospital/bridges were destroyed in order to
    create fear in the mind of innocent people.

  9. Ram Bahadur Lamchanay Gurung, if you are real Ram Bahadur, I am sure you are bribed and corrupted by our Wangchucks.

    And if its your fake name, here you go-

    What do you mean by our national dress-

    1)did we vote for this dress,

    2)did we vote for Dzongkha ( Ngalopkha) to be our national language?

    In-fact, these are all policies enforced by your Wangchuck here at Thimphu, it not people choice. It is a choice of Monarch and it belong to them not to me or our Sharshops.

    Next, you are saying -“90% of the people who left
    Bhutan were innocent.” So, what is the responsibility of our government? Are not they responsible for those people?
    Do you ever imagine how we feel when our Buddhist were expelled from Tibet? Try to treat our people in camp and in Western world with same love and humor that you shows to Tibetan Refugee. Treat every human with same heart, do not be biased. Speak for their justice and their pain. Do not speak for money and power.

    Other wise, you would be a burden for our nation to claim you as a pure Buddhist and justify you as a creature of GNH.

    Kadinchey(However, I hate one sided monarch of Bhutan).

  10. Hello Kotta RBLG,
    Thank you for your cool reply and simple questions you have thrown at me. Answering your first and second questions, I would like to say NO. I will never go with violence and never like to see people suffer. Bhutan has to remain an independent sovereign country for Bhutanese of all ethnicity who have settled peacefully according to the norms of the time. Zhabdrung came to Bhutan and settled. Nobody questioned him, and even if some did, he subdued or convinced them and that facilitated his stay in Bhutan. Those days, people from Tibet walked into Bhutan and stayed in Bhutan if they wanted. That was the norm then. We cannot now say, “hey, Haaps and Parops .., you are Tibetans, get out of Bhutan.” They all followed the standard of that time. And they are now true Bhutanese just like Lhotshampas, Sharchopas, Khengpas, kurteopas and so on and so forth. The Lhotshampas came later but still followed the rule of the time. The law passed by the National Assembly and the King in 1953/1954 regarding the Nepali immigrants who settled in Southern Bhutan declared that they have the same rights as everybody else in Bhutan and also they were charged with the responsibility to protect the southern boundary. The protection statement is an Act. That was the norm. Bhutan’s central government wasn’t unintelligent that they let forceful immigrants settle in the South. There was a reason to settle them there and was done legally as per the norm.

    There was a great population boom in the sixties not because the illegal people came in but because of the first five year plan. The medicines, malaria eradication program and safe drinking water cut the mortality rate tremendously. And also more people were educated and learned to live hygienically which boosted the longevity and child survival. Make no mistake there were few illegal ones, every country has them. I know it because I travel and learn such issues in other countries. Take an example of the USA. By the way, Bhutan has been the most difficult country to live as illegal Bhutanese after 1950s.

    Your third question is totally misled. Yes a few so called initial leaders did hurt the people of the South. Most people despise them for their vested interest and inhuman acts. Having said that, I would like to tell you that they were so few and their followers were in few thousands only, can’t be more than five. The sad thing was the Government couldn’t protect the innocent people who didn’t know what was happening. However the mass exodus was because of the actions of civil admin. and the army terror. Let us not kid ourselves by being naive about the exodus.
    Your 4th question, The Greater Nepal: that is the most preposterous Bullshit (sorry for the lingo) that was created and Bhutan knows it. When you create a buzz word it doesn’t become reality. That was so absurd.
    Your 5th question: I don’t know about such a vast destruction. Those things happen when people are frustrated by too many laws imposed upon them within a short time. Such changes should come from within of individuals. However I can’t myself stand burning of national dress and flag. That was a dim-witted act for sure. About the demonstration I can’t say it was totally peaceful or extremely violent. You and I know what extreme violence is. You have seen around the world through media if you have not travelled.

    You and I both have to agree that the exodus of 1/6 of population is a human tragedy and suffering. We all as humans need to understand that every human has the right to live on this planet peacefully and especially a Buddhist population has more responsibility to see that happens. Buddhists cannot give lip service and in reality practice something else. Our grandchildren will investigate our misconduct and write about it. And if we do not apologize now for our misconduct they will have to apologize on our behalf. And that will be a shameful situation for the Government of Bhutan one day, and for the grandchildren of the so called Leaders of the Southern Bhutan turmoil.
    By the way I did not get answers for my questions. I take it that you quite agree with my thinking.
    Wherever I am on this planet, my love for Bhutan is no less than any Bhutanese living in any part of Bhutan.

  11. Achamva ji & T.N.Chhetri,

    Finally, you two have accepted facts about the criminal activities committed by so called freedom fighter for democracy during 1990 and frequent kidnapping/looting of innocent villagers living along the assam border in Sarbang and Gaylaphu Bhutan at present days in some extent.
    If people like you come forward at that time and support Govt. to protest the violent acts.. it could have saved people to leaving Bhutan.
    As you know very well that, we had small number of armed force personnel at that time and it was impossible to deployed at every villages of Bhutan to provide security to the people. So I feel that, lack of co-operation from the Nepali people to the Government has created Bhutanese refugee.

    By the way,I would like to ask few more questions :-

    There are many caste/religions and creed in Bhutan with different culture and dress,but WHY only Nepali disrespected the ONE NATION ONE ,ONE PEOPLE policy of Government ? why refused to wear National dress,why brunt down our National Flag ?
    Dear T.N. plez do reply my above question(you said vote for Dress and flag ?) Plez do not become joker in this forum.It will bring bad image to refugee .
    And,,, dear T.N. plez keep in mind….the burning down of
    National dress and National Flag is a heinous crime all over the world and you are liable for death punishment in other countries.. Say thanks to our ruler/Kings for deleting death punishment from Bhutan law.

  12. Those people in South were more educated and politically aware about the injustice brought by “One nation one People”.

    Our people didn’t disrespected because most are influenced by the catchy phrase -“Son of Palden Drukpa”. But today, most of our young and educated Sharchops are understanding the conspiracy behind- “One national one people”. It is only designed for monarch to stay in power.

    Today, not only our Sharshopas, but Lhotshampas, Khengpa, Mangdeps, Kurteps, Bumtaps also hate to say national dress, national language, or bla-bla-bla, because it only represent the Kargyupa order. I hate too because our Nyingmapas aren’t represented here, so does Lhotshampas.

    As you said our country have different race and ethnicity, but why our so called custom, tradition, values, dress code, and, language only represent Monarch and Kargyupa order.

    I hate Bhutan’s monarch because of their conspiracy over reincarnation of new Shabdrung and their historical discrimination over our people.

    Namneeng rumey!
    lekpan yeep cho

    Norbu

  13. Excuse Me, RBLG,
    Having read my quite comprehensive comments, you have totally failed to understand even the premise of my discourse. I am dismayed about your level of understanding. If you have read most of my comments, I have been very fair. I have never tried to be unfair to both the sides. And see how you jump into assumptions and attacks. I and many have criticized about burning of national dress. It is socially wrong, I have always said that but you telling me it warrants death penalty, MY GOODNESS, you are still living in primitive universe. I saw K5 with Japanese Leaders in their suits. Are you telling me that the Japanese leader is less patriotic to Japan than K5 to Bhutan? Give me a break! I am sure the Japanese Leaders were equally patriotic as K5. National dress is an emotional attachment, if all agreed worth keeping it. But treason for not wearing it, now you are making a joke out of it! It is like the tobacco case.

    I had more than 20 gohs, and I wore them every day before the compulsory law was established. It came from inside me not because the dress code was established. Uniforms, dresses and the mannequins of leaders are burnt every day in India and so many other countries. India is Bhutan’s friend and the world’s greatest democracy. It happens there all the time. GROW UP!!!!

    Your assumptions are teaching me that you are too young to understand what happened or old enough but still doodling in the phony psychic that was created then. Small army…… That time 5army guys with guns could rule a whole village. Ask some of your senior army officers in confidence what they deed to poor and innocent people. Ask senior civil officers of that time in confidence and they will tell you. I wonder if you are still in Bhutan or studying in some country with my tax money. I don’t care if you are getting good education. Hopefully you will become a good human of this planet and not only Bhutan.

    During the crisis no patriotic Lhotshampa was given any chance to do anything except people in the uniform and they were also strategically posted. ‘One country one people,’ first you define what it means and ask questions. Cultural change does not happen in one day. It takes a long time. The national dress you are talking about is a Tibetan dress any way. The Zhabdrung wanted to change some nooks and corners and call it something else. He was angry with Tibetans because he was chased out of the country. Just because few people did not wear it, doesn’t mean you can paint everybody with one brush. Most people I knew did not complain. Actually more Northern Bhutanese working in the South complained about the national dress when it was hot.
    You haven’t answered any of my questions seriously and keep on adding your questions which are based on assumptions.

    I love to answer questions and make logical and honest comments.
    Your writing this time lacked clarity and character. I hope you will take a little more time to think and write next time. Take responsibility for mistakes made.

    I said multiple times that the initial leaders and their followers did make grievous mistakes. They have to apologize publicly to all affected parties including Bhutan. There could have been many other ways to solve the problems. With the same token what the civil admin. and army did later was totally deplorable. What Lyonchhen said as the country’s leader was equally wrong in the moral sense. He on behalf of many people needs to take serious responsibility and apologize to the people he has hurt for so long. Druk Gyalpos 4/5 might have to think seriously. It is fine now because GNH is in the air, but many years later it will become like the case of Gyalpoizhing. It came out after more than a decade. The Southern Bhutan case is a moral and conscience case for Bhutan and She will have to carry the burden for a long time. If not sorted out now it will be a great moral burden for K5 or K6 or K7 and JYT’s children and grandchildren.
    Do you know one thing RBLG that the junior committee members shouldn’t have been convicted that closely to the big fish. Those days nobody could say anything in front of the Dzongdas. What could that little Khina maya say to the Dzongda, vertually nothing but to sign where she was told to? Of course few others were also in the same boat as Khina Maya.
    Let us have conversation of what is real and not just argument for the sake of it. Let the other readers get the true and honest perspective.

  14. Hi T.N. and achamva,

    You are proudly taking about democracy and freedom , so please do not forget that majority is the key success of Democracy and freedom and 98% of Bhutanese people are peacefully enjoying happy life under the existing system of governance and present leadership.
    As old saying goes “every community has their own black sheep and there is no exception to you and Me.The parents are unable to keep happy all the children ,how the government can keep every citizen(7 lakhs population)
    happy ?
    Therefore, you need to sincerely accept that, the number of so called refugee is hardly 1-2% of the Bhutanese population.
    For achamva:-
    Your comment is totally out of context. Regarding,K5 not wearing National dress in japan. Plez note that he was in japan not in Bhutan. So you can wear even your dowra sural ,a Nepali National dress out side Bhutan.

    Your second comment..Tibetan dress ? Our Nepali lady prefer to wear saree instead of real dress Gonue -choli/fafeia and male like to wear english suit and Daka topi. So whats wrong….if we the majority people accept and we wear it with dignity and respect.Moreover..plez note that, there is vast differences between design of Bhutanese Gho(male dress) and Tibetan dress including style of wearing.Please do not correct your mind.
    So what is your comment about Kira(women dress) ?

    Regarding complaint of norther Bhutanese ,wearing National dress in hot places of southern Bhutan as you have mentioned.You need to realize ,our forefather fought many wars with British India along the southern border wearing the National dress and proudly defended our mother land.We Bhutanese used to travel thousand miles through dense jungles and snow capped mountains carrying heavy load wearing the National dress. In the hot Arab countries, both male and female proudly wear their National dress covering head to toe.
    So what is the problem, wearing our national dress ?

    You have mentioned about the gyalpozing case and repeatedly trying to high light the name of Khena maya.There are more than dozen officials like Khena maya,so why necessary to mention the name of Khena only…So it shows your communal mind . Shame..shame..

    For T.N.
    Your comment about sherchokpa, Khengpa,mangde,
    kurtepa does not bear any weight at this modern world. Your expression is against the democracy and freedom.
    and I do believe that, your hate comment on particular religion and community will not accept by the international community at all and it shows your criminal mind to create violent activities in the peaceful society.If you are a true Bhutanese, you will not express such feelings in this international forum.I fear that, you must be either cross breed or makpa (son in law) of Nepali migrants.

  15. Hey you agent of Wangchuck, your arguments seems so weak and invalid. If I voice over the injustice here in Bhutan, what is your evidence to consider me anti-national or cross breed.

    People like you make our generation feel awkward and shy to speak the truth and reality of this country.

    The policies implemented by agents of Wangchucks like you and the Monarch to discourage to speak the truth, to ask for freedom, and to make a unbiased judgment is ridiculous. It clearly reflect the irony of GNH.

    In-fact, here are thousand of Bhutanese who totally disagree on the conspiracy implemented by our Monarch and its bureaucrats to kicked out our own people out from
    Bhutan(ethnic cleansing).

    Many educated and young Bhutanese don’t like many policies and rules enforced by Bhutanese Monarch, but the agents like you and Monarch tag them with anti national, terrorist, and anti-social.

    So, our people are hiding the reality to make you crooks to feel happy. But sooner or later we the real Bhutanese will crackdown you and your faithful monarch.

    FYI, I am a real Buddhist and follower of GNH who believes that truth need to be told, and humanity should be justified.

    Last but not list- If you don’t know how to make a good argument, don’t make false and nonsense argument too.

    Long live Bhutan!( (I hate Monarch)

  16. Shreeman Tshering Norbu,

    If you are really a freedom fighter, why you are hiding behind computer ? come open, express you feeling to the general public.
    I realized that you are just barking like dog..A BARKING DOG SELDOM BITES” in Nepali VOOK..NAY KUKUR LAY….
    TOK.DAI..NAA’
    It is understood that.. …you don’t possess that democratic mind and character ..coz…..you don’t have ability to digest
    any negative comments.I mean… whoever try to bring truth to the people,they are branded as.. Wangchuk’s agents by you and anti social elements.
    You are trying to create……… communal and social conflict between……… sherchok,Nanglong,khengpa,Bumthab and Lotshamps………….. through your baseless and immature comments.
    Plez, ……..wake up guy ! now we are in computer world,it is easy to reveal the facts within one second from any corner of the world.

  17. Pathetic and fake (Ram Bahadur Lamchanay Gurung) your logic of arguments is completely immature.

    In your most previous comments you stressed out our Southern and Eastern Bhutanese as anti-social, terrorist, or illegal immigrants. You also claimed that your Monarch is not responsible for initiating the conspiracy of ethnic cleansing.

    Then in your following comments you switched your statements stating that many of those Bhutanese Refugee are innocent, and were the result of some vision-less leaders. You are also defending that “One Nation One People” policy as the tag of Democracy, but how on earth would it be justified unless people vote for it?

    Now, you are being pathetic and defending your own argument with puzzled mind set. You should feel awkward and shameful to switch your arguments here and there.

    In-fact, I am using proxy to write comments in this pages, so you(Agents of Wangchuck ) aren’t being able to track me down. At the end, you want me to come in public, so you could tagged me as a criminal, terrorist, or anti-monarch, and throw me behind the bar (As your Monarch did to our innocent Bhutanese from East and South before) to suppress the bitter truth and hidden story of my small and beautiful nation.

    Long live Bhutan( Hate the Monarch).

  18. Hello RBLG
    My GOODNESS! This has to be the right expression I need to pick for you. Is your logical thinking blurred by unpredictable shades of clouds or ARA? I would have stopped this debate with you some time ago on the basis of your mostly fictional commentary, if it was not for the general readers of Bhutan and Diaspora. Both sides of the boundary are reading our comments and holding their breaths because they both are exasperated with us, rightly so, or they want to know more about the factual story/history and not fiction and myth or they are expecting sincere debate from us rather than cooked up ‘Khichari’, if you understand the expression, which does not happen always because truth is swept under the carpet to make the argument stronger but time will dig it up as I am trying to do by digging you up and putting you and your cohorts on a fair platform where everyone can see our foundation and judge and create their own educated/hopefully fair opinions. Having said all that, I want you to come to the point, one that you are willing to debate on fair grounds or beat around the bush and nitpick without any basis. Secondly do some research, talk to some fair and wise people and write your comments, otherwise no use telling others to do things that you yourself don’t adhere to. Your incoherent comments make people like me who do not believe in B.S (pardon my language) believe how primitive you are in your thinking.

    Look at all the comments you made and the comments thrown at you. Analyse them carefully. It seems that you don’t have any clue of what you wrote earlier and what others are trying to tell you. If you want to make comments on my write ups then study the questions well, look for good answers for the ideas you don’t agree with me and put forward your comments. Take an example of religion. I am one person, among many hopefully, respect all religions and faiths as long as they stand for the good of all mankind, fauna and flora, and this planet as a whole. I do not believe on one race belongs to this place and another ethnic group belongs to that place. The whole planet is ours and we need to look after it for our elders, for us and for the future generations.

    You talked about your forefathers fought many wars with British. How many EXACTLY and when – dates please?? By the way exactly what were the reasons for the wars? I can give you exact reasons and those reasons are not nice to listen to. I could have given it to you privately for your education but here on a public platform I don’t want to……. I did not write Bhutan history but I did a lot of research on Bhutan, I spoke to many renowned lamas, elders of different locations, history writers, at least four historians and even few descendents of the last Penlops.

    You did not understand anything I said about the clothing. Did you? I have nothing against dress codes as long as it is not harmful to health. Most countries have something or other. Most people on both sides (Bhutan and Diaspora) think that the Southern Bhutan trouble was Driglamnamjah/twa-Sum. That is an escape-goat. The real reason for the problem or uprising was the census. When people are bewildered with their citizenship status there will be questions asked. These questions were badly construed by the selfish leaders and thought that this was a way up for them and pretended to lead people. But they led young people so wrongly that the Government got deeply disturbed. The Government reacted so indiscriminately that they buried the GNH so deeply in 1990. It is sad for a country which was loved by most if not all citizens and was an example for few other countries. Both sides went so bad that we now have such a visible deep scar that has been written in the unwritten history books and one day the children and grandchildren of Bhutan will study written chapters of the exodus and the scholars from Bhutan and outside will write theses on the topic and earn Doctorial Degrees. Of course movies must be in the making, who knows?

    So RBLG and the cohorts think hard before slapping around your cheap content. I think the southern Bhutan case is so lucid that no one needs to gather evidence unless one is writing history or fighting a legal case in Geneva. Anything else is sweeping it under the carpet.

    RBLG, you are cheap! Why did you ask the question about Khina Maya? It is just one name from the list which I thought could have been vulnerable being a young lady then and being from the South. And it was the case around that time. May not be now! I could have picked any from the second list. So don’t take things in a racial perspective.
    How big is Bhutan in size? Do you know? Who traveled thousands of miles to fight a war? Even if Chinese had gone, it couldn’t have been thousands of miles. Few hundred miles could be right. Your Mathematical knowledge is atrocious! In another occasion you tried to use %. Again no clue whatsoever! Another issue you wanted to bring forth was democracy. Again you are making your own theory. Talk about the foundation of the concept and deviate to suit your own perspective. Don’t change the established concept to suit your argument without justification.
    @ TN.
    You and I are painted with the same brush By RBLG. Whoever you are I want to give you an advice, don’t hate people – friends or enemies. Exposing hate will satisfy your frustration and suffering momentarily but doesn’t bring people together. Who knows one day, 100 years later, and your offspring might marry one of the offsprings of the person you hate today. The other thing is RBLG is not Wangchhuck’s agency.

    Some elements of his argument (eg the wars) I heard from quite a few people in Bhutan. When I humbly challenged them, they did not have any answers. The reasons for wars were also weird. But that is history written in some cases by agents of the Government the way they want it, and I don’t mean that this is a Bhutanese case, it is in general.
    Back to the Land Case, I wonder if the big fish have resigned or not. Usually in democratic countries senior people like them resign immediately on moral grounds. Have they?

    @ The Readers,

    Sorry about these long comments, but the issues have to be questioned. It does not matter whether the matter of discussion is from this side of the river or other side. Readers must have noticed that we are hungry for debates. Silence of many readers and general commentators also tells us a lot. For a long time people were not allowed to say anything to the leaders of both sides. Now the Kuensel also has comments corner. We always said that they suppressed their media. We were no less. I sent similar views of mine to BNS some years ago but they refused to publish them.

    BNS might have to expand and bring a variety of platforms for people to raise their voices or tell their stories or make comments on issues or make serious corrections on some of the articles and opinions. Some of the texts I have read are very misleading. EG. Write up on the Dagapela mandals. Writers, Editorial Board and friends who proof read the text should be cognizant of the facts in the articles. When some readers make corrections on the misinformation, even for the sake of courtesy, the writer should support his or her evidence with more details or thankfully acknowledge the correction. The editors should also acknowledge it if the author does not do it. EG When I questioned the age of the photograph I should have got some answer for it. Anyway it is just an observation! Pointers like these from the readers might help to expand the popularity of BNS and will also create an educational stage for young people who have less experience with Bhutan or who were born outside after 1990s.
    Achamva

  19. Dear achamva,

    So far, I was trying best to avoid bringing facts about poor condition of my present life and express frustrations against so called our leaders and chamchas.
    I am a victim of 1990 problem, my brother is still missing he was abducted by group of armed militant lead by kazi.Our house was looted twice and father was badly beaten by the same group because we refused to join the villagers who were leaving Bhutan at the same time.
    Finally, my old parents forced me for leaving bhutan with a hope to reunite our abducted brother.
    We submitted application to Govt. and collected few thousand in cash and left Bhutan. Both the parents died before meeting their loving abducted son.Later learn t that , he was abducted and killed across the border for refusing to take up armed militant training by kazi group.
    Now , cunning people like you already left for green pasture for luxury future and we poor people are suffering and becoming “dhobi ko kukur ghat ko naa ghar ko”
    I hate bad comments against the Bhutan King in all respects. You can see large number of Lotsham people still enjoying happy life in Bhutan. There are Lotsham Ministers,Dashos,Doctor,engineers and moreover now it is learn that large number of lotsham has purchased land/building and running big business in capital Thimphu.
    Where are our so called leaders who promised us to take back to Bhutan and provide better future with all the fundamental rights ?
    They were and are busy in favoring their own relatives/friends through corrupt practice and now they establish link through such forum and raise refugee issue in time to time, in order to keep enjoying luxury life in the name of refugee and of course misuse refugee fund.
    Plez, note that, I and my family is just an example of injustice brought by the so called freedom fighters and leaders and there are still large number of such unfortunate people(victims) living in the camp and adjoining Indian state of West Bengal and Assam.

    Achamva….you have mentioned that all the Bhutanese are migrant people from other countries..yes I agree in some extent..but you should agree that ,other citizen of Bhutan never revolted against the ONE NATION,ONE PEOPLE POLICY and refused to wear National dress/bruntdown National flag like Nepali did in 1990 .
    Regarding thousand miles fighting war, a silly question…I mean… to guard the bhutan boundary from east to west south to north, our forefather had traveled more than
    miles and thousand times as there were no other mode of traveling/transport.
    Plez, do some thing for the poor people who are suffering in Nepal refugee camp and brutality of Nepal police.Our childern are becoming drug addicts and criminal due to poor living condition .
    Plez do some thing good for poor fellow citizen.

  20. Dear RBLM,

    Please please please don’t try to save the face of Bhutan’s Monarch with your sentiments. Who would speak for my brother who was killed by Royal Bhutan Army, two of my cousin who were raped and buried near the river bank of Sunkosh by RBA, who were gone to fetch water at near by spring. My Uncle is still behind the bar (jail) in Bhutan.

    I have no right to judges those so called leaders because they were civilian like me whose influence is not as much as the then monarch(4th King). Who used his army to terrorize, killed, rape, and tortured our innocent villagers.

    Why are we treated like an enemies? Just because we want the census to be fair, and just because we ask for equal rights and freedom as ruling ethnics. Or just because of the fair that the monarch would lose his power.

    Yes! I know people were victimized from both the side, but is not the government responsible to address the demand of public voice? Why people from same house hold were categorized into 5 to 6 different categories during the census?

    Why Nepali Schools were closed, why green belt is enforced only in Southern part of Bhutan? Why Southern Bhutanese were conspired and the heinous crime of ethnic cleansing was done in our Buddhist nation? Does Buddha teaching approves those cruelty of our Monarch ?

    I am also a Buddhist, but I don’t want to surface the terror and trauma create by our Monarch and RBA.

    Sincerely,
    Nima Tamang (USA)

  21. Hello RBLG,
    Thanks for the Title CUNNING!
    I don’t know whether I am cunning or not. I have never used you or anyone else for my benefit. If I wanted to be corrupt in Bhutan or outside I would have had positions and lot of money. But my ethics will never allow that. I have tremendous dislike for cunning people.

    I really had to work hard on you to get your story out. The last episode of yours seems to be touching. If what you say is TRUE in your case I am sorry for you. Your story is very similar to my story too. My family/relatives and I have gone through the same fate except that nobody was killed in my family. The so called leaders did ask for my head if I did not join them. If you read all my write ups, you will notice that I have given justifications to my statements. May not be sufficient but I have tried.

    Your continuous support to Bhutan King and Government is unbending. And you have right to do so. But if you are trying to be on a public forum like this then you have to justify your statement. If you are trying to push your luck from one point to another without justification then people will call you arrogant.
    Read my write ups carefully, I have intensely accused the so called initial leaders for the misdeed they carried out in beginning without thinking of the consequences for the whole country and especially for the people of south. Details I have already given earlier, so I will not elaborate it here.

    For the King and the Government the burden of ethnic cleansing has entered or/and will enter the world, regional and Bhutan History. This is not my statement. The members of the western as well the eastern world have been voicing the ethnic cleansing and will voice it for a long time. It will intensify further but will not die. They have the heaviest burden now to carry than than ever.

    RBLG, don’t allow your mind to pick things up and splatter at us. For example: ONE ANTION ONE PEOPLE. The problem here with you is that you don’t know the depth of Bhutan history or the paradigm the Government created ‘then’. That’s why I asked you earlier if you really know the meaning of the slogan as meant by the creator. Until and unless you know it your reasoning does not hold water. You seem to know things but when we go deeper you seem to lose it.

    “War, thousands of miles or thousands of times.” I told you already that you have no clue of what you are saying, so please don’t talk about things you don’t know. You are making it worst by saying thousands of times they went to south to protect the boundary. How many wars did they fight? My advice to you is: stand strong to your beliefs if your beliefs are justifiable and truthful to yourself in good faith and are good for humankind in general. Think hard, on the other side of the river that there are thousands of people like Nima Tamang. They also have the same right as you have to say things if justifiable.

    Nima Tamang, as I said to RBLG, if your story is TRUE then I am sorry for you too. I have categorically said earlier that the armies’ actions were atrocious. We cannot forgive them unless they ask for forgiveness. My reasoning is that they were supposed to be our protectors.

    RBLG, why are you stuck there? Why don’t you want to go to the third country settlement or you have specific problems. You should write true anecdotes, because there might be others who are sailing the same boat. It would be helpful for them. On the other hand why do you love the king and why is he not taking you back? Of course you have the right to love the king or anyone else the only irony is that he doesn’t love you, it seems. Or does he? You can be related to him. A member of Gurung family did marry a Royal. You could be related to him. If you are, that is ok too! Actually this is a part of our history too. It has to be written somewhere! What do you say?

    Best wishes to all!

    Achamva

  22. Hi achamva,

    The people like your thoughts and knowledge should have there during 1990 problem.So we need not landed into Nepal camp as refugee and facing hardship for the last 20 years with a false hope & false promise made by cunning foxes.
    We all must accept that, more than 50% population of refugee who left Bhutan were forced by armed militants and violent action against our wishes.Result is…large number of lotsham people who believe in non violence and do trust the King and supported the royal Government at the time of need are proudly living inside Bhutan and enjoying equal rights.
    For your kind information I am not related to any Gurung elite family.More over,it is also learnt that Mr.Gurung who married to royal is no more in royal family and he left Bhutan and settled down in foreign country with English girl friend before 1990.
    As old saying goes “naa. khow..va..nay din vari ko sikar,khow va..nay kancha babu ko anowar.”Now we became” khatta angur kown kha ay ga” I mean, just passing bad comments over good things against the King and Government.

  23. I am not going to buy your sentiments and your weak logic which by any means tends to salute the ethnic cleanser-the 4th King and the monarchs in general.

    Friend please be focused to the discussion-

    1. Why aren’t these corrupted leaders here in Bhutan – who not only did this heinous crime , but also blow back to your mantra- “Gross National Happiness” given strict and justifiable sentences or charges?

    2. JYT him self was involved in Large land scam, and he is the mastered in corruption, but why no single authority point a finger to him?

    3. Which constitution and which article gives your uncle(Monarch) to enforced Kargyupa order to our Nyingmapa practic. (Did we Bhutanese make those constitution, or are enforced only by your monarch?).

    4. You have been disqualifying our freedom fighter and democratic movement initiators in general with the act of some stupid so called leaders (in-fact, many Vigilante and spy of 4th king were the one to conspire the terror and violence during people’s movement).

    Today, Syrian opposition coalition has been terrorizing and destroying nearly whole country but still the Western world has been backing them up. Did our freedom fighter made such huge destruction, did they launched any nuclear weapons and missiles? No they didn’t, and our monarch took the advantages over their peaceful protest by spying and conspiring some crooks to depopulate their mission.

    5. Until the regime stays in power- the phrase “Best king, best leader, or great Hero” could be echoed from designated corner- and these are the fact- Bashar al-Assad, Muammar el-Qaddafi, Gyanendra Bir Bikram Shah Dev, King James II of England, VII of Scotland, II of Ireland, and many more were cited by their bureaucrats as the best king or ruler in their nation, unless revolution throws them away. So, you have every rights to escalate and propagate your uncle(monarch) being the best of the best, but we the people know the cruelty and inhumanity of your great monarch.

    Unless equall freedom and justice are granted to our Nyingmapas, and unless the mess of ethnic cleansing is corrected, hate and disrespect towards the monarch would not be cleaned out, rather it would sky rocket.

    Long live Bhutan, hate the 4th Monarch!

  24. Dear Tshering Norbu chhetri,

    Please note that, it took 6 years to draft the constitution of Bhutan with the help of constitutional experts from more than 100 countries.And same was discussed with the people of Bhutan through open public meeting in all the districts, besides public consultation with villagers through village heads and people’s representatives during the drafting period.
    I do not know , how you dare to say bad about our constitution, which was appreciated by the international community and passed by our people’s representatives.
    Regarding,King and our leader in power.. please remember that, the constitution has provided people’s rights to remove them through majority vote. But so far majority Bhutanese are happy with the King and present leadership.. therefore. single frog like you (minority) shouting from a dirty pound will not be able to bring the rainfall,I mean changes.
    Respect the desire of majority of the people..coz, the 7lakh genuine Bhutanese are proudly enjoying all the rights and facilities in Bhutan.
    Every community has their own black sheep and there is no exception to our community because of people like you.
    You are trying to project yourself as freedom fighter.. shame ,, shame.. in fact freedom fighter never hide behind a computer ,freedom fighter never hate or divide people in the name of religion/caste and creed i.eNyngmapas and
    kargyu etc.
    Oh! do not forget that, when you point one finger to other side,the rest four fingers are always pointing towards you. so,
    The 20 years have been passed living in Nepal as refugee, the poor are suffering and rich and cunning people are enjoying luxury life in the name of refugee.
    The cunning and rich people left for better future and poor are still suffering in the camps.
    So where is your democracy ? where is your freedom, where is your equal fundamental rights within the refugee community ? ? ?
    The people who try to bring facts are branded as Govt.
    agent etc. So I feel that, people like gaddafi, bashar
    al-sadda are misleading the refugee community in the name of freedom and democracy.

  25. My friend, every dictators and absolute regime have their messenger. It rationally applied here in Bhutan too.

    In fact, from social to political structure, and from constitution to educational system every where is occupied by bureaucrats of Monarch. So, how in earth could be the voice of people represented in reality? From decision making to policy drafting and from nominating an experts to appointing a general, our monarch have direct or indirect influence. So, what is the credibility of our arguments to state that our policies were drafted by people?

    To be honest, I am neither a freedom fighter nor a bureaucrats of monarch. I am an ordinary Bhutanese who believes that truth to be told and equality to be asked.

    BTW- your statement -” So I feel that, people like gaddafi, bashar al-sadda are misleading the refugee community in the name of freedom and democracy” holds no drop of water. Gaddafi, Bashar al-Sadda are dictator like our monarch, they doesn’t represent the people.

    And yes, as I always say- I love Bhutan and all my fellow Bhutanese, but I hate the monarch and its black social network.

    You alleged me as a Bhutanese to divide our people, but your argument is nothing other than to shade the our discussion over the ill treatment to our Nyingmapas and followers of Mahayana Buddhism.

    I would challenge people like you who still devoted over generational power to bring the light to the discussion of our
    10th Shabdrung Rimpoche, Could you?